Me too Meg, it is funny but noir keeps cropping up lately, someone recommended me the book "The Girl With the Crystal Eyes" by Barabara Baraldi, got me thinking about the Girl With The Dragon Tattoo book and film series (but i talked about that elsewhere on the forum recently so won't elaborate here) then I stumbled across a progamme on italian noir that was very interesting, -what i love about it, or noir literature at least, especially italian, is it leaves an ambiguity and often unresolved ending, in a way where the author doesn't feel the need to repair the torn fabric of society, perhaps that is more of a realism... I don't know. Then I came across this Noir series at the San Sebastian Film Fest, which got me thinkng about Noir translated to or portrayed in film, i wonder if the edges are softened a little, for example italian noir iterature is less sympathetic to the mafia gangster, there is absolutely no sugaring of the pill, there is no glamorisation, as there is even in something like The Godfather, anyway.... back to Nic films...in Wild At Heart, the Lula and Sailor ending in the book was not as the film....it was far more noirish...and how about Red Rock West...I guess that ending was a resolution of sorts! Then,  thinking about detective and crime fiction as I was as a result of this italiam noir programme, I couldnt help thinking of our Bad Lieutenant..that has noirish elements, the ending isn't quite neatly tied up and clear cut, though perhaps ultimately our detective does save the day as far as the crime is concerned adn that is neatly concluded and resolved. anyway just rambles........

wondering on the difference between a thriller and a noir?

Interesting, I tend to use the word noir to decribe a movie with lots of dark undertones, especially if it involves unsavoury-type peole. Classic stuff from the forties. But Red Rock West, although it has all that, has something that makes it less noir to me, and I think it is because Michael as Nic portrays him is such a true character and he remains unbroken in the end. He does some iffy stuff, but he never really crosses the line. Also there is a lot of  humour in the movie. So I guess it is not a real noir movie to me, now that I actually think about it. But it is always described that way, maybe because of the plot and Dennis Hopper's awesome performance.

I haven't read any Italian noir, Lula, but it does sound interesting. The Scandinavian authors are having a field day right now in thriller/mystery books, talk about dark! Must be all that night time, affects their moods?

So no happy ending in the Wild at Heart book?

Good one, Nouveau Noir, I like it! Yes, to me Bad Lieutenant is definitely a noir film.

Neo noir is used to describe noirish movies not from the forties and fifties, I believe. The true noir movie being things like Double Indemnity. If you want to get technical which I don't, but some movie phobes do.

cinematic alchemy

Yes, that is a good description, isn't it?

I don't recall reading that before, glad you posted it, Lula.