“People always say things like, Oh, well, he was suffering so much that he was better off dying. But that's not true. You're always better off living." - Dashiell Hammett
What: When Nick’s much loved wife is assaulted, Nick is offered an opportunity for revenge; one that changes his life forever.
Who: Nick, a dedicated teacher of disadvantaged youth in the inner city, and Laura, a violinist in the city orchestra, are still very much in love after many years. The one night that Nick declines an invitation to join Laura and their friends Trudy, Max and Jimmy for a celebratory drink after the opening night concert, Laura is attacked in a parking garage and left for dead. Arriving at the hospital, Nick is stricken with guilt – if he had gone for the drink, Laura wouldn’t have left the restaurant alone and she wouldn’t have been brutally attacked. Shaken by the seeming disinterest of the police, Nick retreats to a waiting room where he encounters another man, Simon.
Simon takes a seat two rows behind Nick, looks up to the television.
Simon: (re: infomercial) Where is this?
Nick: Don’t know.
Simon: Beautiful.
Nick nods. The men watch.
Simon: I went to Iceland a few months back. Stunning. It’s always good to get out of your space, get out of your head. Don’t you think?
Nick nods, still silent.
Simon: Who do you have in here?
Nick: My wife. You?
Simon: A friend. His wife was raped.
Nick eyes Simon.
Simon: What happened tonight, to Laura, it shouldn’t have happened.
Nick takes a hard look at Simon. Simon has the calm, slightly unsettling, demeanor of a funeral home director.
Nick: You’re a detective?
Simon: No. How are you doing?
Simon doesn’t wait for an answer.
Simon: That was a stupid question, wasn’t it?
Simon moves to a seat closer to Nick, lowers his voice.
Simon: The man who did this to your wife was paroled three weeks ago. He’s done it before, he’ll do it again.
Simon glances out the small window in the door. He’s making sure nobody is there, nobody listening.
Simon: I know what you’re feeling. I’ve been there.
Simon studies Nick, sizing him up.
Simon: We can take care of the man who raped your wife. It would need to happen tonight.
Nick: What are you talking about?
Simon: You understand what I’m saying, don’t you?
The two men lock eyes.
Simon: If you want this to happen, you need to understand one thing about the way we work: we might ask something in return. (pause) We might ask you to watch somebody for a few hours, or break a security camera, little things like this. Or maybe something greater. (pause) But most likely, Mr. Gerard, you’ll never hear anything from us for the rest of your life.
A skeptical, but very emotionally damaged Nick takes that leap. Later that night, the man responsible for Laura’s rape is found dead, presumably a suicide, having “jumped” from the roof of his building. But although this dish of revenge was served cold, Nick finds little solace as he encloses himself in a cocoon of self-loathing for his lapse in protecting Laura on the night of her attack. Laura, who harbors no such feelings toward Nick, insists that they undergo couples’ counseling for Nick’s withdrawal in the relationship. Very slowly, the marriage begins to heal.
Once again, it’s opening night at the symphony and Nick has joined Laura and their friends at the post-performance party.
Nick: Who’s still thirsty?
At the Bar Nick orders from the bartender.
Nick: …a Kir Royale, and a Jack neat.
The bartender moves off to make the drinks. Nick glances about the crowded room: the people, the music, the buzz of conversation and laughter. It’s all so civilized and wonderful.
Nick’s cell buzzes. ID shows, “Restricted.”
Nick: Hello?
Simon: Bring them the drinks, excuse yourself to go to the restroom, then head outside.
Nick: Who is this?
Simon: It’s Simon
Simon hangs up. Nick’s shaken. It’s the moment he’s been dreading for a year and a half.
Nick’s marriage has gone off track not just because of his guilt about Laura’s attack, but also because of his realization that his desire for revenge not only killed the perpetrator but also obligated him to a shadowy network of possible murderers. With Simon’s call and eventual “request,” Nick can no longer deny the bargain he has made with the devil.
No Meaner Place: “The Hungry Rabbit Jumps,” on the 2009 “Black List,” is presently in post production. It has its roots in too many different literary and film sources to mention, not the least of which is Goethe’s Faust.
Even when Nick’s position becomes increasingly more untenable and he transforms into surly and unpleasant, we are with him because who wouldn’t have struck the same bargain and been faced with the same consequences; consequences that will mortally endanger his wife and his best friend. It doesn’t hurt that the pacing and tension are relentless until the end.
Life Lessons for Writers: “When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are. Anything your heart desires will come to you.” (lyrics: Ned Washington). The meaning is applicable to both Robert Tannen and his character Nick Gerard, just in vastly different ways.
Conversation with the Writer:
Robert: First off, I love your site. I think it’s an honest examination and it’s a resource I wish had been there when I had started… just having other people and their stories, realizing what you have to go through.
Neely: I love writers and writing. It’s a tough profession. It’s one fueled by passion, but anything fueled by passion has enormous highs and a lot of lows. It’s not easy. What I love is that writers have a lot to share and they are rarely asked. Everybody asks the actors; everybody asks the directors. But nobody asks the writers and it all starts and ends with the writer. Well maybe not ends but it definitely starts with the writer.
Robert: It usually ends with…
Neely: (laughing) … the director taking all of the credit.
Robert: …if it’s good. If it’s not, they go after the writer which is quite common…
Neely: Everybody goes after the writer. (laughing)
Well, first off the bat, congratulations on making The Black List, but mostly, congratulations in getting this produced.
This is something of a departure for me in that this is a script that has actually been produced and is presently in post-production. In features, a script can lie fallow for years at a time (which clearly this one didn’t because it was on The Black List of 2009) and still eventually find its way to the big screen. There is a recognition in features that a great script is a great script – there is no expiration date, just timing. And as frustrating as this situation may appear to be, as far as the writer is concerned, it keeps the embers of hope burning, unlike in television, where the window of opportunity is limited and finite, regardless of the universality of the theme or the reasons for its “failure.”
Where did the idea come from?
Robert: It came from several sources. One was the birth of my daughter. It started me thinking. What would I be capable of doing as a human being if somebody did something bad to her? It gestated for a few years but all I had was a basic revenge movie. One day I was sitting down with a friend, Todd Hickey, who’s a filmmaker in his own right. He had another revenge idea with one key plot point that I loved. I immediately said right there, “I want to write this movie.” And that’s where it came from.
I’ll tell you a funny story, though. After it was shot, I was talking to an LA cop that I’d met. He knew nothing about this project whatsoever. And of course being a cop in LA, or any profession in LA, he had dreams of writing a screenplay.
Neely: (laughing) Of course.
Robert: Yes. And unprompted, he told me his idea. It was about a group of cops in LA who don’t feel justice is being served and forms a small vigilante organization. And I said, “They just shot that. That’s my movie.” It was bizarre, and a little unsettling too because he’s a police officer here, so you wonder where is this idea really coming from. (Neely laughing)
Neely: You do realize, don’t you, that’s the whole Ramparts scandal. And, of course, it’s also “Magnum Force,” the second “Dirty Harry” film.
Robert: Well he was telling me stories; great stories that could be other movies – some, of course, have already been made. I think everyone has stories.
I was in New Orleans with the director, Roger Donaldson when we were in preproduction. We were walking back from lunch. I love New Orleans by the way; I think it’s a great city and I love the people. But we saw a guy and it was quite clear to us that he was a plain clothes police officer. He was unloading stuff from his car – it wasn’t a police car, just a regular car – into kind of a sketchy looking building. He had a gun you could see quite clearly tucked into the back of his pants. We kind of looked at him for a second and he caught our eye and basically in his eyes he said “keep moving.” It was scary and bizarre.
Then during shooting there was an incident where a van full of either special effects or sound equipment was stolen one night by a criminal on the run. In LA, the cops usually follow the crooks until they run out of gas or crash; but these cops just started shooting and shot it out. I don’t know if the guy lived or not; he ended up in the hospital. But we needed that van to shoot the next day and it was impounded as evidence. A call was made from “people to people” and we had the van back the next day. It had 18 bullet holes in it.
Originally the story was set in Philadelphia, now it takes place in New Orleans. That’s a long rambling answer to where did this come from.
Neely: I would love to hear about the process. Was this a script written on spec or was it pitched around town?
Robert: Spec. It took me about a year and a half to get it into shape to take it out.
Neely: Who got it and what was the reaction?
Robert: I’m not sure you can do it right now, by my representatives had this idea, which I thought was really neat at the time. We went to 5 movie stars on a Friday, big movie stars who have production companies. And we said, “You have til Tuesday at noon to see if you want it; then we’re going wide.”
Now odds are, on any project, I don’t care how good it is or who’s attached, you’re not going to get any of these guys to bite. But we had some interesting conversations on Monday. By Tuesday at 10:00 there was big star who was interested, but he was only half way through the script. By Tuesday at 1:00, we had that star attached with his company and we went wide. Within an hour we started getting calls.
It was one of those rare, rare, rare weeks when the script is on fire and everybody wants it, partly, of course, because other people want it. I think it hit a certain genre that is viable commercially, but we also had a star attached. We had a lot of action and by the end of the week we had sold it to Endgame Entertainment.
Neely:Do you want to talk about the star now or later?
Robert: We had one star and then at some point his scheduling didn’t work out once we got the director, so we ended up with a different star. So that’s what happened. The first star was Toby McGuire, and we filmed it with Nic Cage.
Neely: I saw that Toby McGuire gets production credit.
Robert: Yes. He stayed involved.
Neely: At what point in the process did the script make The Black List?
Robert: I was sitting with the director in preproduction, about 2 weeks out from shooting, and his assistant came in and told me.
Neely: But at this point the script was already bought and about to be made…
Robert: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neely: …which I think is pretty normal now with The Black List.
It’s very impressive that this script came out of a small management company, The Shuman Company. It was your manager, A.B. Fischer, who got it to me.
Robert: I don’t know how it works. I don’t know how The Black List works. This being Hollywood and “no meaner place,” the director’s assistant came in and told me “Congratulations you made The Black List.” And I said, “Wow. That was out of nowhere. I had no idea.”
And then later that day one of the producers came in and said, “You know what they say about The Black List? When you get on The Black List, that’s a movie that will never get made.” At least that’s what he said. And I said, “But we’re making it right now.” And he’s like, “We haven’t started shooting yet. We’re two weeks out.”
As everybody knows, things can fall apart at any point until the bitter end of shooting. It’s a nice little feather in your hat but.
Neely: A what point did a producer attach and what was his role in trying to push this forward?
Robert: Endgame bought it and they’re the ones who developed it. I did a few drafts for them before…
Neely: Who is Endgame?
Robert: Endgame is run by Jim Stern who’s a…
Neely: …very famous theatrical producer.
Robert: Exactly. Out of Chicago. Chicago family, part owner of the Chicago Bulls. He had some producers there and some consultants and it was all those folks. We made some changes during the course of the development.
Neely: How did they find you?
Robert: I think it’s rare these days because you pretty much need a package… we did sort of have a package because we had one star. As I said, we went wide - we went to 30 or 40 places. We thought this was right up their alley. My agent, Brian Dreyfuss, had a client, Rian Johnson, who had made his second movie (or was in the process) with Endgame – “The Brothers Bloom.” So he had a good relationship with Endgame. They seemed interested. We had other interest but it seemed to us, and I think it’s still the case, that certain companies, when they buy a movie, they tend to make it; and with certain other companies, it’s a shot in the dark. We had some interest from studios, but with a studio, you’re talking a whole other ballgame especially with the odds of its ever being made.
Neely: Well they’re not indie friendly.
Robert: Exactly. They have a different business model. I don’t know if this is true or not, but studios seem a little less writer friendly sometimes. That is, they have their own people that they want to put on the script to punch it up and so on.
So anyway, we took a look at everything and thought Endgame was most likely to make it.
Neely: Most features have several producers, as I’ve noticed you have. Tell me a bit about each one and his or her role in pushing this forward.
Robert: I think the roles get muddled. I think there are your development executives who work with you on the idea and the script and finding new ideas. And then there are the finance folks who get the money. There are, of course, discussions with everyone. For instance, “can we make this character a 30 year old man instead of a 50 year old man so we can get this particular star because this 50 year old star doesn’t have the same value overseas.”
That’s the reality of it. Those producer roles are all muddled. You get a lot of hands working with you creatively. That said, then there’s the line producer on the movie and that’s a whole other thing I don’t know much about; but essentially that producer is the nuts and bolts of the making of the movie.
Neely: When somebody says to you, “Can we have this 30 year old because he has more value than the 50 year old?” How do you as the writer of the film, manage that? Many creative folks just get their backs up immediately on a matter of principle. But you can’t do that anymore.
Robert: No you can’t. And I think you have to pick your battles as the creator of the project. Like, does it matter if it’s a 50 year old or a 30 year old? In “Hungry Rabbit Jumps,” not really, it doesn’t. Not that the original character was 50, we didn’t have that issue. It was just an example.
That said, I’ve got a new project I’m writing and almost done with in which the leads are two middle aged women. It’s not a thriller; it’s a totally different genre. At some point someone said to me, “Can we make these two middle aged men?” And I said “Absolutely not! It makes no sense; it’s not the same issues. It would be a totally different movie.”
I think when you get these notes or concerns… Look everybody’s trying to make the movie, theoretically; nobody’s not trying to make the movie. So obviously, a sales exec knows what can sell in Europe and what can sell in Asia. At some point you have to take a step back and say, “Do you want your movie made, or are the changes they’re proposing too great and it won’t be your movie. In which case it’s just not worth it.” And the reality, let’s face facts, as a writer you make most of your money if the movie is made. You don’t make a lot, or at least I don’t yet, make a lot of money from the get go.
Neely: Who was the most responsible in finding the funding and where was it found?
Robert: As far as I understand it, Endgame took it to AFM (American Film Market) in Santa Monica (it’s held every year) where there are a lot of projects in all genres or price ranges, and they presold the foreign rights. We had the script, we had the star and we had the director. They presold almost the entire world and they raised a lot of money. I believe that’s where most of the money came from.
Neely: Who is your director and at what point did he come on board?
Robert: The director was Roger Donaldson, an Australian with a long career including one of my favorite movies of all time from the standpoint as a thriller writer – “No Way Out.” Twenty-five, thirty years later people are still referencing that film in meetings.
Neely: You mean the Kevin Costner – Gene Hackman…
Robert: (simultaneously)…the Kevin Costner…
Neely: …which is based on a 1948 Ray Milland - Charles Laughton film called “The Big Clock.”
Robert: I didn’t know about a lot of the history until I talked to Roger. I bet you didn’t know that the final ending of the film wasn’t the initial ending. It’s one of the greatest endings ever. I’m not going to give anything away but it’s a great ending.
Roger got on board in the summer of 2009. He had almost done a movie with Nic Cage and they had wanted to work together for a long time, so Roger called Nic. Nic read the script and we had Nic.
Neely: Tell me a bit about the casting process and your involvement, if any. How were you able to get such an incredible cast to attach to the film? Guy Pearce is one of my absolute favorite actors.
Robert: Me too.
I was involved in the discussions, but to be perfectly frank, I don’t think that what I said had a lot of weight.
Neely: They were polite and they asked you?
Robert: Usually, yes. Particularly with the bad guy, Simon, who ended up being Guy Pearce. I’ve seen what I think is a final cut of the movie and Guy Pearce is phenomenal. I love him as an actor. So my involvement was “involved” but not a lot of weight, let’s put it that way. Occasionally they would say “How about this person?” And I would say, “That’s a terrible idea.” Not that they would really listen to me.
Neely: But did they?
Robert: Umm. That’s a good question. I’m not sure. I would give my opinion and I don’t know how much weight… look, the reality is, they might offer the role to somebody, that person said yes and then they’re talking money and the money’s not right, so that person goes away. There are so many factors beyond “who’s right for the part.” Again, there are factors like the actor’s value overseas, who’s going to play well opposite each other, their ages. Everybody knows this stuff.
Neely: No! I don’t think everybody does know that stuff. That’s why this is extremely valuable.
Robert: The fact is, I really like Nic Cage as an actor and he’s got huge value overseas and that’s why he’s a valuable actor to have in your movie. He gets your movie made.
Neely: At what point in these various processes did you know that you would be able to go forward? Did you know almost immediately since you had Endgame involved?
Robert: You never know, I don’t think. I’ve only had two movies made, but they both sort of came together in the same way… very quickly with great casts. But there are always issues up to the bitter end. There are always issues til you start shooting.
Neely: So you never know.
Robert: You never know. And you have to be really careful not to get too excited because, you know, (laughing) there’s no meaner place. It could fall apart at the last second.
Neely: So now you’re in Post Production. Actually you’re beyond that; you may have a final cut at this point. What exactly are you doing in terms of the movie at this point?
Robert: I’m just waiting for them to distribute it.
Neely: Do you have a domestic distributor?
Robert: I think we do but I’m not 100% sure. We had one and I think it’s still happening, but I’m a little bit out of the loop at the moment.
Neely: Are you going to hit the festival circuit?
Robert: No.
Neely: What else is necessary in order to get a release?
Robert: I think that’s a great question. It seems like the battle these days, and maybe it’s always been this way, is how to get your movie seen. We’re fortunate in that we have one of the biggest movie stars on the planet in it. So you need that.
The tricky thing these days is the amount of marketing, the P&A (prints and advertising), you need to have to get it seen is massive. This is not a super-hero movie. In many ways it’s a dark independent movie, so you’re talking about a P&A that rivals the budget of the movie. That’s a lot of money for somebody to take a chance on. Is this genre going to work? Is this movie going to work? Even with all the testing, you just don’t know. Did I answer your question?
Neely: Sort of. I’m the last person to discuss this because I don’t even do Twitter yet and I’ve wanted to have the blog site go viral only I have no clue as to how to do that. But it would seem that with social networking, the internet and alternative sites, there should be a way to mitigate some of those P&A costs.
Robert: I agree.
Neely: I don’t know what they are, but there must be…
Robert: I don’t either but I think it’s smart marketing. I think this movie could lend itself to a great, smart, not very expensive viral campaign just because the nature of it is game-like – very mysterious…
Neely: …thriller, mystery…
Robert: Exactly. It lends itself to that kind of marketing. But, to be perfectly frank, it’s completely out of my hands. I don’t have anything to do with that aspect. I suppose I could self-promote it a little, but I’m not sure the company encourages you to do that because they have a whole team of people working on it. But I think you hit upon something really interesting. If the social media can take down a regime, it should be able to market a movie. Now at the end of the day, though, you do have to have a decent movie, right?
Neely: Right.
Robert: Unless you’re a giant Hollywood production that spends $500 million on marketing and they don’t even need the movie to be good. This is a big issue for a lot of writers. It doesn’t seem to really matter as long as it’s just a big, huge spectacle. I suppose there’s a place for that (obviously), but most writers don’t write those things.
Neely: I’m thinking right now of a movie approaching the billion dollar mark internationally (and that particular movie is not Harry Potter). The movie seems to be a lot of explosions and nifty special effects but the marketing was extraordinary on that film and it hit just at the right time, I suppose.
Robert: A couple of years ago there was a big exec at a studio, and I asked, “What do you want?” And he said, “What we want is $150 million movies. And until that model is broken, that’s all we’re going to want.” I don’t think it’s 100% true; studios still do make a few other movies. But on the whole, that’s what’s generating their business. That’s the reality of it now.
Neely: Andy Hendrickson of Disney said that tentpoles were the only kind of film where you could justify spending $100 million in marketing. As far as he was concerned, visual spectacle is what drives attendance. Story is insignificant.
Robert: Well that’s depressing.
Still, I’m really interested in other forms of distribution, such as directly through Netflix, directly through Apple TV. The problem is that movies are still pretty pricey to make.
Neely: The VOD market is still pretty much the trash heap. Studios and networks haven’t quite figured out how to make it duplicate the necessary revenue model.
Robert: I have several neighbors who have Canon 5D and 7D Cameras. They look great, you can shoot a movie on the cheap. But at the end of the day, it’s still about the substance. I’m old school in believing that if a movie is good, it will be seen and it will work out. So despite over 10 years in the business, I still cling to some optimism.
Neely: Well, I still believe that if it’s good, they will find it.
Robert: I do too. I do too.
Neely: Let’s continue this next week because I’d like to find out more about how you started as a writer.
Thank you Florian, you are very gracious I am operatin on minimum sleep my brain is not feeling up to speed today! They are calling him 'Nick' here! lol, why I keep going on about the name change I do not know, it just irks me, if that was the writer's vison. But, can see why an actor called Nic playing a character called Nick could get a little blurry!
i wonder if that strategy with a movie script would still work?
yes a little confusing, im so upset and dissapointed at the same time, that this movie doesnt get what it deserves- good promotion, festivals, normal trailer and a release date. really want to see it
__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
"It is only in adventure that some people succeed in knowing themselves - in finding themselves." - Andre Gide
Fade In:
Ext. Philadelphia skyline – Day.
Summer heat and haze give the city a dream-like feel.
Ext. Brownstone Duplex – Backyard – Day
A Labor Day barbecue in a middle class neighborhood.
Manning the grill is Nick Gerard, solid physique, sharp mind, a high school chemistry teacher. He wears a chef’s apron, works the grill. Smoke billows over him, rivers of sweat course down his face.
Laura Gerard approaches her husband with a cold beer. She’s an attractive woman with a playful, intelligent twinkle in her eyes. She holds the beer to Nick’s cheek. They look out over the party, some of their closes friends in the world.
Laura: I’m glad we did this.
Nick: Me, too. Sara’s kids soaked the Franklins’ cat so expect a call.
Laura: Maybe the monster will stop leaving us dead birds now.
Laura kisses Nick’s neck, tastes his sweat.
Laura: Yum. I’m going to do my duty and mingle.
Laura moves off, turns and winks at her husband. This is a couple in love.
Nick watches Laura join her best friend Trudy (20’s, white), Trudy’s husband, Max (30’s, white), Annabel (40’s, black) and Annabel’s husband (40’s, black).
Nick turns his attention back to the grill. He prods a burger. Blood oozes.
Nick: Jimmy, rare, blue cheese, with your name on it!
Jimmy (40’s, white), an ex-Philly cop, approaches.
Nick: Is that too bloody?
Jimmy: I call it flavorful, Nicky. That’s perfect.
Nick plops the burger on Jimmy’s plate/bun.
Jimmy: Thank you, brother. So how are you feeling about tomorrow?
Nick: I’m in denial. I’ve got a few more hours of summer left.
Jimmy: I don’t know how you do it year after year. It’s people like you, Nick, who give us all hope.
Nick: You did your part, too, officer.
Jimmy: And what am I now? Chopped liver? I secure a very important cultural institution. “High profile target” is the operative word.
Nick: Here’s to you.
Jimmy: Here’s to both of us.
The men toast with their beers, drink.
A spray of water hits Nick and Jimmy. The older boy has taken the hose off the sprinkler and holds it with a sly grin.
Jimmy: On three, Nick. You take the left flank, I got the right. Three.
A Continued Conversation with the Writer:
Neely: I opened with what was the first scene in “The Hungry Rabbit Jumps.” I felt it was a masterful illustration of character development establishing the marital relationship, the easy-going friendships and our sympathy for Nick’s “everyman.” We are on board with this character from page one and will follow him wherever he is forced to go. It’s very reminiscent of the way one of my favorite recent French films established character. It was…
Robert: … “Tell No One.” That’s one of my favorites too. That’s a great compliment. Thanks.
Neely: You’re very welcome. Those two lead characters have a lot in common.
So how long have you been making your living as a writer?
Robert: 7 years.
Neely: Were you writing before that?
Robert: Yes.
Neely: So you weren’t then making a living.
Robert: Not as a writer.
Neely: What were you doing?
Robert: I had a few years where my wife was supporting me, god bless her. And before that I had a few minor careers. I did not come to Hollywood until my late 20s. I had no aspirations to be a screenwriter until my late 20s. I was a writer, but of other things.
Neely: Like what?
Robert: Short stories, articles, poetry… stuff I could never make a living doing but…
Neely: Were you published?
Robert: I was published. And actually, to me, the poetry helps me in my writing as a screenwriter big time, because you want the script to be a great read. There are great movies that aren’t great reads. But Boy! I think, particularly in the early stages of your career that read had better be easy for an executive. With a poem you’re talking about rhythm and you’re talking about cadence. Those things should, in my opinion, be in a screenplay too.
Neely: I’ve never heard anyone describe it that way.
Did you always know that you wanted to do this?
Robert: No.
Neely: What did you want to do?
Robert: What did I want to do? I think my earliest, like a lot of kids, my earliest aspiration was to be an astronaut. At some point I explored being a test pilot and going to the Air Force Academy.
Neely: You went to the Air Force Academy?
Robert: No. No. I explored the option but it was 100% not for me and not… Ironically, years later, I got an intense fear of flying, which I’ve overcome. I probably would have made a bad pilot (laughing). I also… one of my passions growing up was soccer and I wanted to be a professional soccer player. There were other things along the way. I wanted to be a speech writer for the President. I actually started out in politics.
I’ll tell you what happened. I was always writing. I was always creating. I come from a family of writers. My dad’s a writer and my mom does copywriting for a school system. My brother Greg Tannen is a screenwriter as well as a musician. My older brother, Steve, and my sister-in-law Deb Talan have a band called The Weepies.
Neely: I looked them up and saw that they’re on tour right now and that they performed to a sold out crowd at the Troubadour last week. And on top of that, the next night in San Francisco they shared the bill with your brother Greg. Pretty heady stuff!
What kind of writer is your father?
Robert: He was a creative ad exec and now he has a weekly humor column published online and in a few papers in Florida. He had always wanted to be a jazz musician but he had 3 boys, so had to take a real job as an ad exec. This was in between “Mad Men” times and our times. That could be a whole other TV series. Oh, and my grandfather was a magician. So we come from a creative family.
But I never thought I’d make my living as writer. Then one of my brothers got a job after college working for Norman Jewison, the great director. My brother was his story editor and sent me a 3 page treatment by Joe Eszterhas that had been sold for $2.5 million. I was living in North Carolina at the time while my wife was going to law school there, and I said, “I can do this! Maybe there is a way to make a living as a writer.”
And of course, who doesn’t like movies? I’ve never met anybody who doesn’t like movies. So that sort of sparked me. I wrote three scripts while I was in North Carolina. One got optioned. Another one, believe it or not, was a script about The Muppets that got to the head writer at “The Muppets.” He encouraged me to keep writing. And the other one, as I was finishing it, I found out that there was a film coming out with the exact same concept and story as the one I was finishing. So that one was dead. But anyway, based on those three things I moved out here.
Neely: Did your wife finish law school?
Robert: She finished law school. She was a lawyer for about a year, year and a half. She hated it and now she’s a teacher.
Neely: How long did she support you? And was it as a lawyer or as a teacher?
Robert: Both. I would say it was 5 years. I would get little gigs – some copywriting here, write a little marketing project there. I made some money, but without her supporting me I just don’t know if I’d still be doing it. I’d probably still be writing, but whether I’d still be in Hollywood, I don’t know. It’s a really really hard business and it was hard for me ultimately to “break in,” even though I had some initial success. Like so many people out here, I had many close calls where something almost sells or almost gets made. You have a big name looking at it, really excited, and that person goes and does the other project and nothing ever happens to yours. So look, it’s a heartbreaking business.
You better have some other things you can do – a trade or something - and you better have some other things that make you happy.
Neely: Where did you go to school? Did you major in anything that helped propel your career?
Robert: Unfortunately no. I was recruited to Duke University to play soccer. I dropped out after a year and went to Europe. Eventually I got my degree, but really, I would say that the only thing that helped me was taking classes and learning things that weren’t specifically film-related or writing-related. I actually took a lot of religion classes. I’m of the old school kind of opinion that you need to live a lot of lives and draw upon that for your writing. There’s the other side of the coin which I see too, but for me, living life is just as important as sitting down in that seat for 8 hours a day, particularly when you’re in your 20s.
Neely: What was your degree in?
Robert: Political Science. My first career was very brief, in politics, which I think is just as mean a place as Hollywood.
Neely: It might be meaner. It certainly is today.
Robert: Yeah. It was a very disheartening experience. Even though you could get a lot … well, put simply, it’s one of the few arenas where you can have a lot of power in your 20s as a writer or working on a campaign.
Neely: What about mentors? Have you had any mentors along the way?
Robert: I wish I had, but not really. I’ve had people give me a lot of advice, but not someone I felt I could call and say “I’m in this situation.” I would encourage any young writer to try and find a mentor, because we’re out there and we’re willing to help. I heard Billy Ray, the writer/director, talking the other day and he was saying, “If you’re ever going to direct your first movie, call me. Take me to lunch and I will tell you all I know.” And I wish there was more of that in the writer community because unfortunately a lot of times we get divided. It’s a tough tough place. I know there is that support out there, it’s just finding those people. It’s hard.
Neely: How about detractors? Anyone whose negative influence pushed you forward in spite of their reaction?
Robert: I like to joke that my mom, when I said I was going to Hollywood to be a screenwriter, said, “Well, miracles do happen.” (Neely laughs) Not to name specific names, but I get a lot of creative energy from anger. Anger at the world, anger at people who don’t think my writing’s great, anger that they don’t think my project’s great, anger that my project didn’t sell. It’s one of my motivations for writing. Anytime you have heartbreak or rejection, you take a day or two, or at least I do. I hate the person who rejected it. I scream and yell. I cry, whatever. Then I get over it and I say to myself that I’m a good writer and I’m going to write something else or I’m going to rewrite. I’m really stubborn. That’s perhaps an old cliché and I think it’s true. It really takes a long time and it’s sometimes just the last man or last woman standing. It takes a long time to understand and get a foothold in the business. When I first came here I met a big writer who wrote on “Star Trek,” the TV show. And he said, “It takes 5 to 8 years to even understand what’s going on.” And I said, “No it doesn’t.” But he’s right. He’s absolutely right.
Neely: Do you have any literary or film influences – books and/or films that had an impact on your life or career?
Robert: That’s a huge question. I have a million. I don’t know how to…
Neely: Give me some. Let’s start with books.
Robert: Oh boy. Well I could put a book and film in the same category as one of my favorites; I hope I someday either write a book or film like it, and that’s Being There. Some of my favorite movies are from the 70s, so you’re talking Scorsese, actors like DeNiro, you’re talking Hal Ashby. But also… I write dark thrillers usually, but movies like “Airplane” or “Caddy Shack” are two of my favorite films.
Neely: My husband will love you for that.
Robert: I don’t have to always be serious and dark and dour. My wife jokes that I had Faulkner’s Light in August next to my bed for 8 years and I could never finish it (which is true). I have a personality where if I don’t understand a word I need to look it up in the dictionary and understand it and understand it in the context. With Faulkner, I’m just not a smart enough guy to get through The Light in August.
Hemingway, to be cheesy, was a huge influence growing up. When I first started writing short stories, I tried to write like him, which I think was a mistake made by a lot of us. Raymond Carver, the short story writer, blew me away. Not only influences like that, but talk about Gary Trudeau and Doonesbury; and music, jazz music was a huge influence. And visual art. Sometimes when I’m stuck writing, I’ll go to an art museum and just walk around. I’d say half the time I figure it out somehow by getting out of my head and seeing great art or not so great art; it just helps.
My father’s an inspiration; my parents are inspirations. They encouraged me to do this and they gave me the type of upbringing that allows me to try. But sometimes inspiration, like I said earlier, is just anger and trying to make sense of the world.
But how about sitting in the theater the first time you see “Star Wars” and it stays with you and it blows your mind and it changes you forever. Or how about the first time you see Woody Allen’s “Manhattan.” I love Woody Allen. That kind of thing inspires you to say I’d love to leave something like that behind after I die. The fact that we’re going to be dead and leave something behind for the world. I suppose it’s a form of battling the inevitable.
I would like to leave some kind of legacy. I have a daughter now, and it’s the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me. And you could say that’s a legacy. You’re leaving another person who you hope turns out to be a very good person on the planet. You have to recognize of course what type of personality you have, what you can do. I could never be a politician.
Neely: But what that really comes down to is that legacy isn’t necessarily what people look up to when you’re gone. A legacy could just be a life worth living.
Robert: Absolutely. And I think… I can’t remember who it was. I think it was William Wordsworth who said “That best portion of a good man's life, his little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.” I try to live like that.
But the other side of the coin for me is that I’m really inspired a lot by the dark side of life, at least creatively. David Lynch talks about when he first lived in Philly. It was so dark and they’d wake up and there’d be a chalk outline where a person had been killed the night before; and that chalk outline would just be there for months. There were just junkies everywhere and it was industrial. And for whatever reason, this kind of thing often motivates me in a story idea. I don’t know what it is. Who knows? It’s mysterious.
Neely: What are you reading now?
Robert: Right now I’m reading two books. I’m reading The Terror by Dan Simmons, which is a great, very long, historical fiction novel based on the mid-nineteenth century Franklin expedition which tried to find the Northwest Passage. They got stuck. Two wooden schooners got stuck and there’s so much detail as well as the POV of every man – they’re all British or Irish. Just what they had to go through! But he ramps it up another level, because there’s some mysterious monster hunting them on the ice. I’m about 800 pages in and I’m still waiting to find out exactly what that monster is. The detail is just unbelievable. He’s a great writer.
And I just finished a non-fiction book by Wade Davis called Light at the Edge of the World. It’s a series of essays on vanishing cultures in the world and the knowledge that is vanishing with them. I highly recommend it. Absolutely fascinating. The knowledge that people have had and lost. It’s depressing how quickly these cultures and their languages and their knowledge are being lost - whether it’s the Polynesians and their ability to go across the Pacific in a canoe and know where they’re going without any sort of modern technology, or someone up in the Arctic being able to hunt and survive. All this knowledge will soon be gone. At some point we’ll be pressing a touch screen and hoping it doesn’t malfunction. You know what I mean? A great book! That’s what I’m reading right now.
Neely: And what are you watching? Big screen and small screen.
Robert: “Breaking Bad.” “The Wire.” I think today is the greatest TV I’ve ever seen and it humbles me with the writing. I turn off an episode and I think, “Why do I bother?”
Neely: Did you take your daughter to “Harry Potter.”
Robert: No. She’s a little too young for “Harry Potter.” She doesn’t like movies, she only likes books. It’s very strange.
I’m drawing a blank on recently seen movies. I rented the video… it was the Argentinean film that won the Oscar a few years back – “The Secret in their Eyes.” Stunning movie, stunning movie. Just saw it; loved it.
Neely: If you had any advice for a young writer just starting out, what would it be?
Robert: One side of me wants to say, it would be great to have another way to make a living. It’s all clichés. It’s “put your ass in the seat,” “you only get better by writing more,” “have patience, keep working hard.” It would be great if you had some mentors. One of the hardest things I’ve found is to get a group of readers around you who you trust and are honest and can give good notes. That’s a very hard person to find, cause it’s easy for someone to say, “The third act doesn’t work for me.” It’s very hard to say, “What if you did this or this or this.”
First and foremost, trust the writing process. It’s never easy, except maybe the first day or several days when you have your new idea. Be fearless and bold with your writing, especially after you’ve learned the trade. Forget perfection, just keep creating; just keep writing.
Pick up a camera; anybody can do it now. Shoot some stuff, see how it is to be a director. I did that. It’s great. Take an acting class. Get out of your comfort zone and see if it helps your writing. I think that’s really important. Because there’s the script you’re writing and there’s the script that gets made and a director has to look at it in a totally different way. And that’s a very good skill to have, particularly if, when you have success, you’re going to be sitting down with that director and that person is going to say, “Why is that scene in here? And I can’t do it because of A, B, C.” If you already have knowledge of that process, it’s very useful. And if you were a writer/director and directed anything decent, you are so much more viable in Hollywood. Very very useful skill.
But oh boy! It’s a tough time in Hollywood. It’s just a tough time for writers. There’s less work. I know people who have left the business, but I don’t want to end on a dour note.
If I had to do it over again, I would push a little harder to try to get into TV, to get more of a community, to write with deadlines, to write fast. You can go away as a screenwriter and be lost for a long time and try to find your way.
Neely: “The Hungry Rabbit Jumps” is such a great calling card. Does it continue to open doors?
Robert: It does. I have to take advantage of the opportunities. You have to work just as hard, but at least you’re in the right room.
Neely: So what’s next? Any new potential projects?
Robert: Another thriller that we’re kind of packaging at the moment. And then, as I mentioned earlier, I just needed a jolt of energy and I wrote this kind of James Brooks/ Alexander Payne middle age dramedy starring two middle aged women. And I have no idea; I’m really excited about it and it excites me to write something outside of my genre.
Neely: Thanks for taking the time out of your Post Production duties and spending some time discussing the project. There may be no meaner place than Hollywood, but it’s the hope that someone will notice or something will eventually get done that keeps us all coming back for more. I can’t wait to see the film.
Robert Tannen's story is a bit of a "rebel" story. I mean, he's come almost full circle! Being recruited for college as an athlete, only to drop out, get his degree later, try his hand at politics, only to find he hated it, and finally settling on becoming a writer, all while his wife financially supported him! LOL!!!!
WOW!!!! Now that's a story!! And, I suppose that's what being young is all about. Trying your hand at life until you find what fits and what doesn't.
So, do we know when HRJ/Seeking Justice will finally hit theaters?
-- Edited by Gina on Thursday 8th of September 2011 11:45:15 AM
Robert Tannen's story is a bit of a "rebel" story. I mean, he's come almost full circle! Being recruited for college as an athlete, only to drop out, get his degree later, try his hand at politics, only to find he hated it, and finally settling on becoming a writer, all while his wife financially supported him! LOL!!!!
WOW!!!! Now that's a story!! And, I suppose that's what being young is all about. Trying your hand at life until you find what fits and what doesn't.
So, do we know when HRJ/Seeking Justice will finally hit theaters?
fascinating! the Andre Gide quote at the beginning seems to sum up his journey nicely!
For me, because we know so little about the movie, I was just galvanised by this glimpse into the original script in this and the first part (posted earlier) of the interview! So Nic's character is an 'everyman' and a chemistry teacher?
I thought i had read the article you posted but clearly i hadn't! please ignore this thread then!
I am operatin on minimum sleep my brain is not feeling up to speed today! They are calling him 'Nick' here! lol, why I keep going on about the name change I do not know, it just irks me, if that was the writer's vison. But, can see why an actor called Nic playing a character called Nick could get a little blurry!
